00:00:00:00 - 00:00:37:16 Unknown Project is the web based tool for remedy transition assessment. We also have two principal investigator for this project. Dr. David Adamson is a Vice President and Principal Engineer with GSI Environmental Inc. in Houston, Texas USA and has more than 24 years of experience in the environmental field. Dr. Adamson has authored or co‐authored over 60 published technical articles with a focus on PFAS, 1,4‐dioxane, and contaminant fate and transport. 00:00:37:21 - 00:01:13:15 Unknown He has been a PI or co-PI for a number of SERDP and ESTCP research projects, including as co-author of the ESTCP‐sponsored guidance document “Frequently Asked Questions About MNA”. Dr. Adamson has been a trainer for ITRC and has served as an Adjunct Assistant Professor and Lecturer at Rice University. Accompanied by Dr. Charles Newell, who is a Vice President of GSI 00:01:13:17 - 00:01:49:08 Unknown Environmental Inc. in Houston as well is a member of the American Academy of Environmental Engineers, a NGWA Certified Ground Water Professional, and an Adjunct Professor at Rice University. Please help me welcome the thought Charles and David. Well, hopefully everybody can hear us. Okay, so I'm Dave Adamson here. I'm in the Houston office joined by my tag team partner here, Chuck. 00:01:49:10 - 00:02:15:06 Unknown And our talk is on a web based tool that we've developed an app specifically to look at remedial decision making. So those contaminated sites getting improved ways to figure out how you're going to clean those up and specifically at those sites where there's something going on, some active remedy, and you want to maybe transition to something else. So this sort of project and check once you scrub the project, too. 00:02:15:08 - 00:02:42:07 Unknown Yeah. But before I do this, this is really a homecoming for me in some ways, this whole artificial intelligence field, because as you tell, I've been in the field many, many years, many decades. In the 1980s, I was doing a my Ph.D. work focusing on artificial intelligence. This was a very exciting time. One of these waves of AIS that were there was all this interest and I became very focused on one particular technology rule based systems. 00:02:42:09 - 00:03:02:19 Unknown There were some amazing papers about how these systems were getting a human like performance out of them. So then my story is, is that I went to a conference and met this one professor from Illinois, Dr. Lucks, and I told him I was going to develop this rule based system of how to adopt groundwater, how to do groundwater modeling, interrogating experts and getting these rules. 00:03:02:19 - 00:03:29:01 Unknown And I told him I was going to change the world, basically. And he looked at me in a way and he said, well, it's very nice, exciting technology. But he says, spending your three years of your life writing then rules doesn't sound like it. Very exciting. You know, research to me. And it was really hit home and it turned out these rules based systems were not very good, you know, and they couldn't really get anything that were that really useful for people. 00:03:29:07 - 00:03:58:05 Unknown So I switched over working with one of the professor at Rice University, and that I'm going to develop a decision supports system that combines things like databases and simple models and then also snippets of knowledge. And so that's what I did my Ph.D. And then for this particular project, we're doing the same thing. Yeah. One of the shout out to some of the other people in the team, Dr. Hiroko Haught at GSI Environmental is a lot of the ah, Shining program for this particular online tool. 00:03:58:07 - 00:04:22:11 Unknown Dr. John Wilson, Barbara Wilson Environmental, They were all step of the way, providing a lot of their perspective on a long history as an environmental field. I going to talk about these, but we're going to go through these five things. What problem we're trying to address what is it transition assessment and remediation. We're going to talk about our objective development of this tool and description of these ten modules that are out there. 00:04:22:11 - 00:04:41:19 Unknown We're going to wrap up. Yeah. So for us, it really is a big problem in the remediation community. We've got these technologies, pretty good suite of technologies by this point. We've been working on this for several decades to try to address these contaminated groundwater sites. The problem is that they are pretty expensive and they don't always work the way we want them to work. 00:04:41:19 - 00:05:06:06 Unknown And in part is because we've learned a lot more about these sites in terms of sort of not being a black box, being something that obviously where you've got different materials in there that can make it a little bit harder. Their heterogeneity heterogeneous genius sites. And so there's these processes like matrix diffusion that we'll talk about here in a second that can actually enhance the amount of persistence that these contaminants have. 00:05:06:12 - 00:05:27:03 Unknown They stick around longer, they become harder to clean out a lot of that groundwater. So a lot of these sites we've been implementing these kinds of technologies for years and years. The performance of them sort of hits this wall or they maybe aren't doing getting very much out of any particular year on the performance is sort of leveled off, in part because that remaining mass, it's there. 00:05:27:03 - 00:05:48:03 Unknown It's really hard to get out of it. And this really came home and this this document from the National Research Council, sort of the Mount Olympus for scientists and engineers, you know, in the country. This was led by Dr. Mike CAVANAUGH, alternatives for managing the nation's complex contaminated groundwater sites. And here they talk about many of these complex sites. 00:05:48:03 - 00:06:10:18 Unknown These contaminant concentrations in the plume remain solvent levels above cleanup goals. Despite continued operation of these remedial systems. Dr. Tom Sail from Colorado State called it. He's a big kayaker. This whirlpool effect, we just keep going round and round or just another metaphor for this is Tom Wolfe wrote this book, The Right Stuff, and these test pilots are flying around. 00:06:10:18 - 00:06:34:09 Unknown The plane goes by and they say, well, I tried a didn't work. I tried B, you know, try to stop from crashing it, try to see, you know, they keep trying these different things. But in this book, they said there's no clear path forward. And then they came up with a pretty controversial recommendation this time, you know, from the National Research Council, you know what the effectiveness of that remediation reaches the point of diminishing returns. 00:06:34:11 - 00:06:54:16 Unknown Then you should think about transitioning to monitoring natural attenuation or some other active or passive management using some sort of formal evaluation. So that's what we're trying to do here. And really what we're talking about is transitioning from a focus on let's remove mass to focus on, let's make sure we can keep these in contaminants away from receptors. 00:06:54:18 - 00:07:25:09 Unknown Yeah, And so it's a really great document. It's Chuck mentioned, it's not necessarily prescriptive, but what they do is sort of lay out this idea that that there are these elements of a transition assessment, as Chuck mentioned, that we sort of got to check those boxes to make sure that you've done that at your particular site. So one is really saying, okay, I've got this site conditions, particularly complexities in the geology, what are the inputs, what are those, and then what are the implications for actually preventing you from achieving cleanup goals? 00:07:25:11 - 00:07:55:03 Unknown Number two is you go out, you know, take a hard look at your data. You've got a lot of concentration versus data conservation versus distance data and really, really dig in, do some quantitative assessments of that that sort of document trends. And then third is then say, well, I'm not just giving up what's next. And so it's also mentioned the goal a lot of these is to sort of transition to something that makes a maybe a little bit more sense that something like a monitoring natural simulation approach. 00:07:55:03 - 00:08:12:18 Unknown So those are the elements within any transition assessment that we sort of want to incorporate in what we're trying to do here. And again, as I mentioned before, NRC talked about the importance of this without necessarily saying how you do it. So we want to provide guidance for people a little bit more about it, about the how. Yeah. 00:08:12:20 - 00:08:37:17 Unknown So let's frame a little objective in this way. So it's semi quantitative here. We've got this this is the conceptual graph natural log of say, groundwater concentrations really focused on groundwater here data coming from moderate wells for a lot of this. And then you've got this remedial goal down there and this pretreatment before they actually did some sort of in-situ treatment or pump and treat system they had maybe you could say there's some declining concentration. 00:08:37:17 - 00:09:02:00 Unknown It's hard to tell sometimes because so much scanning or data, then the treatment period got some of that mass concentrations went down. But we're still above that remedial goal on that's that by micrograms per liter for TCE or benzene or whatever. So what do you do now? So our goal here, the quantitative research driven, web based tool that can stakeholders can use a reliable and transparent way. 00:09:02:05 - 00:09:26:20 Unknown Now that no black box that we mentioned that we've heard for a check. Yes, sorry, we can't see your slides. You haven't been able to see the slides? No, not yet. Sorry, we weren't. We thought you were just having a chat. But now let's go see if we can get them up on the screen. So we're sharing, Right? 00:09:26:22 - 00:10:04:05 Unknown Let's restart. Is. Yeah. Try to restart. Our apologies. You should have told us we would have been. What were we just riffing so fast that it was part of the. Well let's do it again. All right, just a second. So we're on. Yeah. Yeah. That's agreement number. All right. So you can see our screen. It's loading and now we see it. 00:10:04:07 - 00:10:29:17 Unknown Okay, well, maybe we describe this slide again. Let's just go back one slide and just talk about this. This is this this is what we talked about 2013, these alternate for managing the nation's complex groundwater sites. And that's really true. There's not much graphics before that. Yeah, Yeah. But this book came out, it was this this sort of revelation in some ways. 00:10:29:17 - 00:10:49:05 Unknown Let's look at these sites in a different way. And at some point for many of these sites, you're going to transition from this, Hey, I want to get maps out. I want to remove KG contaminants. There's something that's more I just want to make sure that that receptors aren't going to be impacted. Yeah. So here's our project objective now with our graph. 00:10:49:11 - 00:11:36:13 Unknown And can you all see the run up? Yeah. Can you make it a presentation view? We're going to swap screens. You're just that should be up in here. But it's kind of kind of messed up. Yeah, you'll have to. You have to share a different screen and maybe it's the top left one that work. So we're going to go back or we go, I'm seeing Project Objective. 00:11:36:13 - 00:11:59:07 Unknown Yes. Okay. And it's just that one slide right now. Okay. All right. Yeah. So we'll keep going. Okay. So then you develop this, this box, this quantitative approach where these stakeholders can look at this thing and decide what to do. If you look on that graph, there's that question mark. What do you do after this? This thing's been removing maps for some time. 00:11:59:09 - 00:12:25:12 Unknown Are you going to keep doing that indefinitely or do you want to transition to some sort of long term management? This Okay. So our app is essentially this is the home page for it and it's built again in our signage and it's maybe not the cleverest name, but what we're calling it is the teaching assistant app for transition assessments T squared tool. 00:12:25:14 - 00:12:46:02 Unknown Again, this is web based, so it runs on pretty much any computer like the net back tool before. Our goal on these is for it to be compatible with pretty much anybody system doesn't have download requirements, no executable files, anything like that and this is since it's developed for DOD is also a free tool and it's got a prototype. 00:12:46:02 - 00:13:10:13 Unknown It's not publicly releasable. It's we sort of finished it up in late 2023. It's actually under a review period right now, but we'll talk about that here in a second and go through what some of these modules look like. Other ten different pieces of this thing, ten different modules or all these different tabs that you can sort of burrow in and look at these different ways to evaluate your site. 00:13:10:15 - 00:13:32:00 Unknown And I think we've got these quantitative tools you're actually going to enter in data. It's going to do some number crunching. It's going to say, this is what we think about your site, and then there's some qualitative learning tools. So this goes back to my experience. You know, 1980s, these decision support systems, you know, databases, they've got simple models and you've got these snippets of knowledge in there. 00:13:32:02 - 00:13:53:09 Unknown So users can go through a simple single module and do this stuff or go through multiple modules and then sort of do this real comprehensive analysis that at the end weighs all the different lines of evidence that we have in there. All right. And as Trump was talking about, sort of divided this thing into his modules and from a sense of saying sort of quantitative things. 00:13:53:09 - 00:14:11:20 Unknown So those are on the left and we're going to go through each one of these. But it's really a sense of you got to give users a simple way of sort of taking their data or subsets of their data and getting some outcome out of it. So in this case, with her position, those is questions that they're trying to answer with these particular quantitative tools. 00:14:11:22 - 00:14:48:06 Unknown On the right side are one of qualitative learning tools. So it might be a little bit of a deeper dive on a specific topic with them within those. There might be some quantitative elements in those, but they're really sort of learning things to help educate people and you pull it together sort of in the middle and sort of a summary module which we're taking, you know, bits and pieces from these results of the individual tools and sort of building them into this metric that we call the Remediation Transition Assessment index, RTA, I will talk about that for the end of the talk, where we go through each one of these tools one by one. 00:14:48:06 - 00:15:11:09 Unknown But first that all the quantitative tools, they all start out with the data. Again, our key metric here is what's coming from those monitoring wells, people going out there doing that low flow sample and it goes to the lab, goes to your database. And then here we were struck with one particular constraint is that no requirement was no data could be stuck up in the cloud. 00:15:11:15 - 00:15:30:21 Unknown All this code, it's up there in the cloud are shiny, but the data can't stay there. So what the basically the approach would be people have their data. It's got to be cleaned up. So if you take care of those pesky non attacks and those pesky duplicates, you're going to do that on your own. But then in this particular format, you're going to upload this. 00:15:31:02 - 00:15:55:11 Unknown And then with this we can start processing all this stuff in here similar to this macros system we're going to try to do. It's this boundless. The database, but it's save it time. You exit the tool so you come back. Yeah. So concentration versus time data on this time another tab for sort of other pertinent information about those monitoring locations like coordinates and that sort of thing. 00:15:55:11 - 00:16:32:13 Unknown So the key points are up there, and that's what Chuck was just discussing previous. Okay. So two one is addressing one of the real keys of sort of these transition assessments. That is at a lot of these sites and this is the Y axis time on the x axis, you see a lot of this sort of changing of, you know, initial periods where you might see fairly rapid increase in concentrations and then later sort of seeing this is a plateauing of things. 00:16:32:13 - 00:16:57:13 Unknown And so that becomes when these sites have matured and maybe they're easy to mass, easy to access, masses has gotten out and you're now trying to tackle that remaining stuff. And so those rates end up being slow. And so this tool is designed to sort of say, okay, what are the rates within those different periods? Can you define a break point within there that sort of goes along with that and see if you've got this actual change in the rates? 00:16:57:18 - 00:17:18:16 Unknown Yeah. And then this analysis here could be for people who are doing this ongoing, you know, mass or mobile trade or maybe you've done a couple of cycles of, you know, in-situ chemical oxidation or whatever. Yeah. And then you're going to try to see how about hit that point where maybe on the left it's this dissolution of, of natural blobs that you that's those things are going away relatively quickly. 00:17:18:18 - 00:17:37:20 Unknown But then that far right hand that that curve you're hitting that wall with matrix diffusion. So take just one quick point is this this right point is reminiscent to me of a I would say one of the top ten movies of all time. You know which one I'm talking about the movie from the nineties point break. Exactly. Yeah. 00:17:37:23 - 00:17:57:16 Unknown So Keanu Reeves and Cedric Swayze. And so that was your inspiration for this this particular tool? That's right. You're trying to look at this stuff and then when you hit that point, you're thinking of that surfing. You know, the last thing you know in the storm is this one, this particular tool that it does a break point analysis. 00:17:57:16 - 00:18:17:09 Unknown It'll auto generate what it thinks the break point is in there. But a user can sort of slide back and forth and decide where they want to arbitrarily place that tool to calculate rate constants at any particular point within their and generate generates results that sort of look like this where it's giving you a source attenuation rate during different periods. 00:18:17:11 - 00:18:35:19 Unknown And then I'll give you an estimated time to clean. And so in this particular one, you know, it's going to say when are you going to get to a goal? Might be five micrograms per liter type goal. It'll project that out with some idea of confidence based on those individual periods. So that's what Tool one is trying to do in analyzing the data. 00:18:35:22 - 00:18:58:20 Unknown And these are some of the results. So it really does these five different calculations for you to look for these asymptotes. But the key phrase used in that document and the NRC document and for example, that that that point break or that break point is used, the number one where you're comparing these two slopes and you're running the stats or these statistically difference. 00:18:58:22 - 00:19:20:23 Unknown And usually we use something like, you know, a 90% confidence factor. Did you put your own in there and say, for example, in that the graph we saw before, you'd say, yeah, you hit that, those are different. Number two is this rate for period two, and that's you. Things are slowing down. Is it significantly different than zero, another statistical calculation or is it that fuzzy data? 00:19:20:23 - 00:19:43:03 Unknown You're really not making any progress. The third metric is the rate for the first period. More two times the second rate, you're going to get a yes for that. And number four is the concentration difference in the last point. So those two regression lines know of the one that's right at the break point. The other is at the end of the record, are they different by more than one order of magnitude? 00:19:43:05 - 00:20:05:01 Unknown Is that five? Is that period? And in that second phase after the break, point have a ten year sort of half life or those two things reducing, you're going to tally these things up if you have this very dramatic difference, you'll be five for five. But other sites you may be zero five, but this is going to go to the final reconciliation at the end where you look at all modules. 00:20:05:03 - 00:20:25:00 Unknown So that's module one. Yeah, Module two is a stability assessment. And so again, you can imagine you've got a lot of these monitoring wells scattered across that particular location. And so that's sort of illustrated here on the right and the generate those sorts of maps for you based on the coordinate data. And then it's taking those concentration versus time. 00:20:25:00 - 00:20:44:16 Unknown It's running a trend analysis, the main kind of statistical tests in which is doing a non parametric trend analysis, it's generating results on those. If the concentration over time decreasing or is it increasing, is there no statistical trend and then it's plotting those things out for you based on these sort of color codes that automatically pop up on here? 00:20:44:18 - 00:21:10:16 Unknown And then it's giving you an understanding of are all of my wells sort of falling in this stable or decreasing or a subset of wells? You can filter your wells by downgrading at wells or overall you mean. So that's the whole idea of this. This tool to do is to do a plume stability analysis. Again, another important thing for understanding whether monitoring natural attenuation is a potential option as the transition technology. 00:21:10:18 - 00:21:29:20 Unknown Okay, So Tool three is all about remediation, time frame estimates and it tries to help you understand if you went in there and did a source treatment and you removed all this math in a source, how long will it take to reach cleanup after you do this? And for this, it's something I think Isaac Newton talked about standing on the shoulders of giants. 00:21:29:22 - 00:21:58:05 Unknown This was based on by the late Dr. Bob Boardman from NC State, where you use this room or M.D. models did these 20,000 simulations. And there's something from his actual paper board job that they talked about. They're trying to understand this simple method that you could you could use to estimate these time frames. And in just a quick note, I was actually Dr. Borden's, you know, memorial service in the fall. 00:21:58:07 - 00:22:18:10 Unknown And one thing I said is that we put a lot of his key research into this tool. In some ways, you know, his legacy lives on here, that people can use his knowledge to understand about how their sites work. How does it work for a user? Yeah, So this particular tool has a series of input screens and we'll look at each one of these here. 00:22:18:12 - 00:22:43:20 Unknown You know, for example, you're just entering in this tab on some basic site information. So distance between, you know, a source in a well, the hydraulic gradient constituent of concerns. When the source started, when the source was removed concentrations. So you can get the model set up. And then next is you have some key data entry that goes into this REM and model work. 00:22:43:21 - 00:23:08:07 Unknown This model was written by Dr. Ron Fulton, Bob and Charlie. They ran this thing 28,000 times, all sorts of different permutations. But the key part is to capture the geologic heterogeneity that causes matrix diffusion for some scenarios where there's very little matrix diffusion and you'd say, well, now maybe, maybe it's not time for transition stuff, but other places it really adds up in here. 00:23:08:09 - 00:23:35:12 Unknown And so I call this the revenge of the geologists. And I was a chemical engineer. So you basically define drive this growler plume that's got to appear hard on the bottom or the top or both. And I have these layers and lenses that are expressed in the actual worn logs. And one thing that Bob found is that you get really long remediation time frames if you have these thick aquatards where that TCE has been diffusing in for decades. 00:23:35:14 - 00:24:04:20 Unknown Our you just got a couple of very thin layers of lenses, six inches one foot. They actually clean out much quicker. So this is one of the drivers on is that is a source of additional source remediation is going to be successful. All right And then out of those sort of 28,000 realizations, it's able to sort of understand from the input data that you've selected how closely it's going to be able to fit. 00:24:04:21 - 00:24:25:10 Unknown So the goal here is then to do a projection of the concentration over time after you've gone in and done that source removal, are you going to get to sort of your goals on this? And so this line here is showing that it's showing a boundary. So these boundaries are the results of the Monte Carlo simulation that's sort of done on those. 00:24:25:10 - 00:24:43:20 Unknown And Dave, you remember this, the sort of projects that have these in progress reviews, and the panel goes in there and I think it was Dr. Phil Gershwin from MIT. He says, you know, just having a single line in there is not very good. You should you should do a monte Carlo analysis to show that in certainty he's a man. 00:24:43:20 - 00:25:04:02 Unknown That's going to be a lot of work. But Rocco was able to do it relatively efficiently. And now we have that uncertainty built in there. Good idea from Dr. Gershwin. Yeah. So it does put that with some confidence intervals on that. And you can you can project out if you were able to, to sort of reduce the concentration by orders of magnitude, how long it would take in order to do that. 00:25:04:02 - 00:25:26:01 Unknown And that becomes important. This is a this is a really key understanding of is there a benefit? Are you going to achieve a benefit in terms of the remediation time frame for implementing that source remediation? If you're not going to get the time frame to come into something that's really reasonable, it's an argument that additional remediation might not necessarily be all that cost benefit. 00:25:26:01 - 00:25:55:02 Unknown So that's what we're trying to do with this particular tool. And so next we're going to go to four and this is this remediation performance database. What performance can I expect from in-situ remediation? And this goes in there to try to get you some framework that this business remediation is an order of magnitude business. And here's a basically a database from an ESD project led by our colleague Travis Maguire. 00:25:55:04 - 00:26:16:07 Unknown Each one of those dots is a remediation in-situ remediation program. Maybe it was bar remediation, maybe it was surfactants, or maybe it was chemical reduction. And in this triangle chart, we're showing the concentration before on the x axis and you go up and there's a dot, you take a left hand turn and it shows what happened after they treated this source. 00:26:16:12 - 00:26:41:10 Unknown These are all chemical solvents. We have a similar graph here for four test sites and you can see here is what you get sort of these ranges all to 35 sites. This median percent reduction was about 82% reduction in concentration. And in terms of what we call these ohms order of magnitude, that's one order of magnitude is 90% reduction, two orders of magnitude is 99%. 00:26:41:12 - 00:27:02:05 Unknown This was 0.75 homes. And you look at this graph, you see that, well, there's a couple of these projects that have the five rooms for 99.9% reduction, and it got below the MCI lines, but most of them are above the lines. And there's a couple of projects, probably projects that I actually designed where it's where the concentrations increase compared to this. 00:27:02:07 - 00:27:22:03 Unknown But we're just trying to give you this framework. What could you expect if you did go in there, tried another round at trying to remove math? This is sort of your what expectations you might have in making that transition assessment. Yeah. So in some ways it's forecast and in some ways it's benchmarking. Yeah. So let's go to plume attenuation rates. 00:27:22:06 - 00:27:43:14 Unknown Yeah. So two or five has really been thinking, you know, we've been talking about conservation versus time sort of shift into this kind of concentration versus distance, because at most of our sites we're really worried about reaching some concentration at a downgraded preceptor. And so the goal of this tool to sort of say, hey, what are my projections for being able to reach some concentration goal down there? 00:27:43:16 - 00:28:04:15 Unknown And we're doing that in this case with sort of staking either field data or lab data to predict what might happen in the absence of remediation, particularly at those sites where we've got something like a pump and treat system in place, we want to shut that pump retreat system up and project a weather down gradient after that containment system is off when you reach that particular goal. 00:28:04:15 - 00:28:25:09 Unknown So again, this is important for sort of forecasting concentrations to see if M&A is applicable as the transition technology. So just some of the way this thing works is that you're going to look at if you have these data before you did your installation of our and treat system before you did this, that's some sort of in situ treatment. 00:28:25:11 - 00:28:45:18 Unknown What did that curve look like? How quickly were those concentrations going down just from for natural processes? So here we've got a graph log concentrations, microgram for later people enter in this data and we got distance in meters and then we've got this clean up goals and you can sort of get the idea here. We're going to get an estimated attenuation rate constant. 00:28:45:24 - 00:29:10:01 Unknown This is the first order constant. It's not like a biodegradation constant of dissolved stuff. It's just how quickly that source and slowly decaying as expressed in the plume. But then you get this rate and you can use this for future planning projections of for some of the next slide, right? Yeah. And so in this case, you've taken those the data you had from pre remediation, you can use other data sets as well. 00:29:10:06 - 00:29:32:21 Unknown And then you're trying to say what might happen in the post remediation period. So these again are data where you're saying I'm not at this particular concentration at this particular point. What would be happening if I was applying that remediation, constant figure extracted from the historical data to what's happening in the future. And so this is then plotting these sort of data out based on that projection. 00:29:33:02 - 00:30:03:07 Unknown It's telling you what your concentrate should be that would be predicted to be at the point of compliance. In this particular example, we're pretty comfortably reaching that compliance concentration by the by the down gradient location where you need to do it. So the real important thing, this was John Wilson's real driver in terms of looking at strong Wilson forwards was from the EPA and thinking about how M&A works in this sort of risk based management scenario. 00:30:03:09 - 00:30:25:09 Unknown Got to slides on these what I call knowledge snippets and these qualitative tools. The first one is this sort of treatise on understanding matrix diffusion. And there is a there's four different questions. The history of transition assessments and matrix diffusion case study models for this. How can a model support a transition assessment? And so there's quite a bit of text here. 00:30:25:11 - 00:30:58:13 Unknown Tool seven is all about enhanced attenuation approach where we talk about it for foreign aid. It's there's a lot of research on that, including it. RC and organics and radionuclide. So it's also I think that a recent paper that Dave and I wrote about enhanced attenuation for us again doing a lot of these qualitative models modules, Tool eight is looking at heterogeneity that actually had some quantitative development were sort of assigning a low medium or high to the degree of heterogeneity for the geology that's at your particular site. 00:30:58:13 - 00:31:17:03 Unknown Again, to support this idea, got to understand how complex the site is in order to understand matrix fusion is an issue if other remediation is going to be successful to aligning here is one thing that we you know, this is a sort of project sort of finds a lot of sort of things in parallel and we want to integrate some of that knowledge. 00:31:17:03 - 00:31:37:05 Unknown So within here we have links and information about these different other sort of projects that were funded under the same statement of need. So kind of a cool way for people to access multiple different avenues of information that's available to them. Okay. So now Tool ten, this is why we bring it all together and we got these different the three steps in here. 00:31:37:07 - 00:31:59:11 Unknown Number one, is there a bright line criteria, things that are super important and tool five is that can the concentration goals be met with monitored natural attenuation? We're going to roll that out. And then in terms of this remediation time frame for me is reasonable or similar to something after sort of maintenance two or three. Then we summarize the results from multiple tools. 00:31:59:11 - 00:32:19:08 Unknown That's this RTA index remediation transition assessment itself. And then we keep going. We complete these checklists, have we done these different evaluations and then we walk through these different key elements of this thing come up with the key answer. Yeah. And the tool is designed that people can do some of this, all of it. It sort of depends on their needs. 00:32:19:08 - 00:32:37:17 Unknown If they want to go through everything in terms of the checklist. But you can jump in and out of modules as you see fit. Check mentioned. Yeah, this RTI remediation transition assessment index want to have a simple way for people to sort of assign, you know, is my site a poor candidate for transition or is it a good candidate? 00:32:37:17 - 00:33:06:15 Unknown And so it's sort of one through five sort of captures that on the lower end, the blue end, where you got low values, sort of a poor transition to poor candidate, meaning that there's not a lot of reason to expect that either M&A would work or that remediation, additional remediation technologies might not provide some success. So again, we do this sort of quantitatively by taking the results from the other tools that are in here, and this is shows we've got these different tools in there. 00:33:06:17 - 00:33:27:06 Unknown ASYMPTOTE Is it expanding your deployment, spanning performance IQ or C potential time frame? It adds and you get these points and you start to look at these things and for example, that Asymptote if you've made that very first tool, we talked about with the five elements, you go five for five, you get strong. This case study, it's a four an expanding, it's a decreasing point. 00:33:27:06 - 00:33:46:22 Unknown So you get you get a five over there. This performance is how far do you have to go to reach your goals. And this is the number of order of magnitude of plume reductions. You're a pretty long way to go in this particular case. Study it. You see attenuation potentials are low. This timeframe says it's more than 50 years at the end. 00:33:46:22 - 00:34:11:00 Unknown You take this whole look and you get this. Two of these candidates are good, three are strong overall. So, yeah, maybe this is this is the site. You know, we don't have a ton of time left. We would just show you a sort of simple application of this looking at a case study. And so this is a DOD site where there is a chlorinated solvent taking the sources up there in the upper left of this map. 00:34:11:00 - 00:34:37:10 Unknown And you can imagine groundwater flow going from the east southeast on here. And they had a series of extraction wells in a collection trench that were operating in order to sort of manage that particular plume. And this is a principle. This is a setting where, you know, you have groundwater moving relative fast. It wasn't till that it was overlying, but they wanted you to think about shoving these particular systems off and go to M&A. 00:34:37:11 - 00:35:00:16 Unknown And so that was done a while ago. What we were doing with these sort of in sort of looking at this, what would the site data have told us about whether this was a good transition at the time? So we're looking at these tools, we're looking at this data before and after this shut down. And this is concentration on a lot, pretty low concentration here, all below 25 micrograms per liter. 00:35:00:18 - 00:35:21:24 Unknown And then this site, our remediation index, says, well, we don't really see much of an asymptote here and we don't think there's that much geologic constraints, that nature of diffusion signal is going to be low. But we definitely see this decreased concentration trends and good point of stability. We get a RTM out of five for those guys. So sort of sort of a mixed bag on this. 00:35:21:24 - 00:35:42:04 Unknown But if you really go in and look at sort of back to the bright line criteria, that's Chuck mentioned before, it's like would the remediation sorry, the attenuation rate concerns here suggests that you are going to be able to achieve your goals at down gradient and. It turns out you would hope. And so this is an application for rule five becomes really important for this particular site. 00:35:42:05 - 00:36:02:24 Unknown That chart shows the concentration versus distance. The red dots are the pre remediation concentrations where you were grabbing that, that rate cuts it from there. You're then applying it to the blue dots, which are post remediation data, and it turns out you're able to get down below that sort of dotted line near the goal concentration. But by the time you reach a point of compliance. 00:36:02:24 - 00:36:25:22 Unknown So at this particular site, this is what they did and they were successful in order to sort of shut those systems off and transition to M&A in this case, actually, they were able to also show that the field based rate constant, that's what these data are consistent with rate patterns that were generated in a lab for abiotic attenuation in that. 00:36:25:22 - 00:36:50:10 Unknown And so a lot of times at these sites, it's harder to make a case for abiotic continuation. This one they were able to successfully do that does wrap up transitioning you know from some asthma of old family paths a clear path up there strong technical basis. This is a free web based tool to help you do that supports evaluation of passive, less intensive approaches, run some case studies. 00:36:50:10 - 00:37:09:00 Unknown And here we're planning that once it gets out of review take the time on the road, see if it can help people. Yeah, we've got a lot of interest in this. Again, as Chuck mentioned, it will be publicly released soon, we hope. And Project Page, you can you can access through there. But we thank everybody for your attention. 00:37:09:00 - 00:37:53:16 Unknown Appreciate the patience with that. In terms of sort of the setup and everything. But also happy if there's any kind of things or any questions that's available online. No questions online at this time. Okay. Well, we will I think Chuck at least will be able to be around for the roundtable. Yeah. Thank you for the presentation. Are they still there, still on? 00:37:53:18 - 00:38:35:07 Unknown Yeah. I have just a question regarding the cost benefit analysis. I mean, the model is really great, is good to review which way to go for attenuation or something else for remediation or some treatment. So I did not see the practical cost benefit analysis is that in this approach because maybe it will be the cost is less than continuous monitoring will cost also money and there is could be also a more so what is the consideration for the risk cost benefit analysis? 00:38:35:07 - 00:39:05:14 Unknown Thank you. Well, it's a good question. It's not built directly into this tool. We don't address the issue of the various trade offs between extended monitoring under an M&A approach versus maybe the upfront costs associated of implementing remediation technology. But we've done lots of work on that in the past and have a good understanding that in general and manager approach is probably going to save you money over time. 00:39:05:14 - 00:39:32:21 Unknown But is there any way you want to sort of Yeah, maybe one thing is go back that you know there is that tool for your 35 sites, less than 10% of those resource treatment and achieve them scales. But this is one of the it is difficult to get to five micrograms per liter and that at many sites you do very intensive mass removal, you'll still be above five micrograms per liter and still have to do that monitoring. 00:39:32:23 - 00:39:59:18 Unknown Yeah, yeah. We don't have an explicit cost model built in here, for example, where somebody could enter the number of monitoring locations, the frequency of sampling events and things like that and figure that out if there is no more questions. Well, thank you, Dr. David and Charles.