WEBVTT 289 00:00:00.910 --> 00:00:06.900 FRTR Presenter: All right. I believe Kent is here doing his moderator duties, checking his time. 290 00:00:06.910 --> 00:00:14.600 FRTR Presenter: So, Kent, I'm going to pass it to you. But again. I just want to be sure we give one more round of applause to our speakers. 291 00:00:18.190 --> 00:00:18.850 FRTR Presenter: If 292 00:00:19.130 --> 00:00:23.720 FRTR Presenter: Gene likes to let you guys think that I run this outfit, but we all know who really does. 293 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:28.549 FRTR Presenter: thank you. Janet and Zachary. 294 00:00:28.670 --> 00:00:30.809 FRTR Presenter: appreciate your thoughts. 295 00:00:31.772 --> 00:00:40.759 FRTR Presenter: Next presentation is technical approaches to characterizing pfas, source fingerprints and background concentrations. 296 00:00:40.810 --> 00:00:42.400 FRTR Presenter: Our speakers. 297 00:00:42.530 --> 00:00:45.150 FRTR Presenter: ours, Cynthia Cash. 298 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:51.850 FRTR Presenter: She's a program manager at the Air Force Civil Engineer Center Fcac in San Antonio. I work with her 299 00:00:51.860 --> 00:00:53.389 FRTR Presenter: pretty much daily. 300 00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:00.795 FRTR Presenter: And we still get along, I think, anyways, 301 00:01:02.150 --> 00:01:12.510 FRTR Presenter: she leads the emerging contaminant team at afcac, where she focuses on execution of Air Force program policy pfas, projects for installations across the Us. 302 00:01:12.820 --> 00:01:18.440 FRTR Presenter: Her responsibilities include strategic planning, funding, programming of projects 303 00:01:18.580 --> 00:01:21.230 FRTR Presenter: and tracking and managing data 304 00:01:21.460 --> 00:01:27.349 FRTR Presenter: and a lot of time responding to Congressional and Senior Dod and Air Force leadership 305 00:01:28.250 --> 00:01:30.490 FRTR Presenter: requests for information. Right? 306 00:01:33.860 --> 00:01:58.640 FRTR Presenter: as I say, she's the she is the program manager for our pfas, fingerprinting and background study project and she has a Bs in geology from University of Missouri, Columbia, and is a licensed Pg. Today she's joined by my tongue is not working this morning. Kavitha dasu who is the lead? Technical lead for the Pfas 307 00:01:59.550 --> 00:02:01.529 FRTR Presenter: research program at Battelle 308 00:02:01.780 --> 00:02:17.280 FRTR Presenter: Epatel. She is leading projects involving innovative, advanced analytical research in pfas and manages several projects, studying the fake transport remediation of water and soil impacted with pfas. 309 00:02:17.530 --> 00:02:38.269 FRTR Presenter: She's published in peer review studies on analytical methods. Fate, remediation technologies, holds several patents, serves as a peer reviewer on scientific journals, and I guess most impressive sounding thing is that in 2019 she was the recipient of Bell of Battelle's emerging scientist 310 00:02:38.300 --> 00:02:42.739 FRTR Presenter: achievement award, and in 2022 inventor of the year award. 311 00:02:43.220 --> 00:02:45.830 FRTR Presenter: So Cindy and Kavitha. 312 00:03:11.040 --> 00:03:12.990 FRTR Presenter: Good morning, everybody. 313 00:03:13.270 --> 00:03:14.680 FRTR Presenter: Can you hear me? Okay. 314 00:03:15.770 --> 00:03:17.530 FRTR Presenter: do I need to adjust this? 315 00:03:18.620 --> 00:03:21.419 FRTR Presenter: Thank you. So 316 00:03:22.190 --> 00:03:25.540 FRTR Presenter: we're going to be talking a little bit today about 317 00:03:26.040 --> 00:03:35.219 FRTR Presenter: a project the Air Force has that's currently ongoing. We are using this as as a proof of concept 318 00:03:35.860 --> 00:03:41.239 FRTR Presenter: for both background studies and fingerprint studies. 319 00:03:49.350 --> 00:03:50.719 FRTR Presenter: not working. Jean. 320 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:08.280 FRTR Presenter: There it is. 321 00:04:08.890 --> 00:04:09.760 FRTR Presenter: Let's see. 322 00:04:11.290 --> 00:04:12.896 FRTR Presenter: So we 323 00:04:14.550 --> 00:04:30.819 FRTR Presenter: at the Daf, the the Department of Air Force, which includes all components of the Air Force, so that includes active reserve Space Force sites. It includes our Brac sites and it includes our Air National Guard sites. 324 00:04:32.350 --> 00:04:48.170 FRTR Presenter: We are working to proactively address, pfas impacts associated with previous installation activities. So not just a triple F, but we're also actively looking at other potential pfas sources at our installations 325 00:04:48.220 --> 00:04:51.080 FRTR Presenter: to protect human health and the environment. 326 00:04:51.940 --> 00:05:00.020 FRTR Presenter: We recognize that addressing pfas impacts prevents many, many challenges. 327 00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:15.210 FRTR Presenter: the least of which are some of those that I have listed here in the slide the rapidly changing, regulatory landscape that's the one that quite honestly, personally drives me a little. Batty. Sometimes 328 00:05:15.310 --> 00:05:20.280 FRTR Presenter: frequent advances in pfas, understanding. It takes 329 00:05:20.390 --> 00:05:38.730 FRTR Presenter: effort to stay. On top of this. There is a lot of research going on out there. There are a lot of studies being published on a regular basis, and we need to effectively stay on top of this. If we are going to effectively manage and address pfas at our sites. 330 00:05:38.779 --> 00:05:49.050 FRTR Presenter: and the large number of pfas sources, and the large number of pfas themselves, the different pfas 331 00:05:49.210 --> 00:05:52.549 FRTR Presenter: compounds that are available, and 332 00:05:54.050 --> 00:06:13.080 FRTR Presenter: the different chemical and physical properties that are associated with each of those individual pfas. It's it's rapidly evolving. If you don't like change. This is not the arena for you to be in one of the things that that we've recognized almost from day one. 333 00:06:14.550 --> 00:06:18.659 FRTR Presenter: So the objective of this project started. 334 00:06:18.850 --> 00:06:24.369 FRTR Presenter: based on a request from Miss Nancy Balkus with the Saf Iee office 335 00:06:24.420 --> 00:06:33.229 FRTR Presenter: was to evaluate Battelle's new pfas signature process. This is a proof of concept project. 336 00:06:33.520 --> 00:06:35.279 FRTR Presenter: The Air Force 337 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:42.630 FRTR Presenter: made the decision at the same time to add in the background studies because we knew that this was coming. 338 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:51.830 FRTR Presenter: trying to deal with anthropogenic background. How do we look at it? How do we evaluate it? How do we identify it relating to pfas? 339 00:06:54.310 --> 00:06:59.550 FRTR Presenter: So we put together a very robust project team bringing 340 00:06:59.640 --> 00:07:05.819 FRTR Presenter: a number of different disciplines. We have engineers, we have geologists. We have chemists. 341 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:08.040 FRTR Presenter: safety professionals. 342 00:07:08.070 --> 00:07:10.630 FRTR Presenter: program and project management. 343 00:07:10.830 --> 00:07:12.900 FRTR Presenter: expertise. 344 00:07:14.770 --> 00:07:21.339 FRTR Presenter: technical subject matter experts. For example, Dr. Glover is part of our team. 345 00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:24.490 FRTR Presenter: we 346 00:07:24.520 --> 00:07:27.299 FRTR Presenter: have involved both fcac. 347 00:07:27.420 --> 00:07:29.939 FRTR Presenter: which is going to be your active 348 00:07:31.400 --> 00:07:32.760 FRTR Presenter: Space Force 349 00:07:32.820 --> 00:07:34.410 FRTR Presenter: Reserve sites. 350 00:07:34.510 --> 00:07:38.893 FRTR Presenter: Brac, and our Air National Guard. We we have 351 00:07:39.770 --> 00:07:52.899 FRTR Presenter: all, all of them involved actively in this project. Not so much, Brac. We do bring them in every once in a while. But Air National Guard. We have several Air National Guard sites involved in the project. So they're actively involved. 352 00:07:55.120 --> 00:08:07.079 FRTR Presenter: Us. Army corps of engineers. This is a contract through army corps of engineers, and they're also bringing their technical expertise and technical experts to the table. Working with us on this project. 353 00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:12.430 FRTR Presenter: We have our prime contractor, Oneida Srs. 354 00:08:12.950 --> 00:08:14.739 FRTR Presenter: who is a 355 00:08:15.030 --> 00:08:21.219 FRTR Presenter: teaming with patelle on the project. So Oneida is bringing the site 356 00:08:21.280 --> 00:08:23.620 FRTR Presenter: sampling investigation. 357 00:08:24.236 --> 00:08:30.553 FRTR Presenter: Piece of this. And then Battelle is bringing the data testing analytical 358 00:08:31.520 --> 00:08:32.970 FRTR Presenter: evaluation. 359 00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:39.870 FRTR Presenter: And others. I want to take a moment to basically throw kudos 360 00:08:39.930 --> 00:08:40.610 FRTR Presenter: to 361 00:08:41.370 --> 00:08:42.950 FRTR Presenter: my co-presenter 362 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:45.880 FRTR Presenter: kavitha. This 363 00:08:47.260 --> 00:09:00.330 FRTR Presenter: process that we're presenting today, which they refer to as the Pfas signature process is her Brainchild. She is the one who developed this and who is actively running the process. And I'm 364 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:05.810 FRTR Presenter: personally quite impressed with the process, which is another reason why 365 00:09:05.880 --> 00:09:07.510 FRTR Presenter: we are 366 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:09.679 FRTR Presenter: actually doing the project. 367 00:09:14.450 --> 00:09:18.380 FRTR Presenter: We also have actively engaged our regulatory partners. 368 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:24.869 FRTR Presenter: So we have reached out to each of the EPA regions where we have our installations. 369 00:09:24.940 --> 00:09:53.360 FRTR Presenter: We were very fortunate to work closely with the EPA 5th Row office to help us in reviewing and finalizing our programmatic quap for the project. We got some very, very good insight and comments from them and our state and local partners. They're all actively involved. They're reviewing documents. They're providing feedback. They're providing comments. They're providing questions, and they're helping us to make this project 370 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:54.710 FRTR Presenter: better. 371 00:09:57.990 --> 00:10:12.690 FRTR Presenter: So just a little background information for those of you who are not familiar with Air Force, a triple F usage. I'm going to run through this real quick. It is a class B fire protection. 372 00:10:14.780 --> 00:10:17.180 FRTR Presenter: So before 1970 373 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:22.109 FRTR Presenter: the Air Force predominantly used protein-based foams which did not include pfas 374 00:10:22.571 --> 00:10:33.730 FRTR Presenter: after 1970, we started using a triple F is what we call our C 8 formula. And that's where the majority of our pfas has come from. And I 375 00:10:33.790 --> 00:10:42.889 FRTR Presenter: can probably estimate that 80 to 85% of the pfas that we're seeing on our installations is coming from a triple F, 376 00:10:42.900 --> 00:10:49.250 FRTR Presenter: that's why we're focusing on it. But we're not focusing to the exclusion of our other pfas sources. 377 00:10:49.530 --> 00:10:58.399 FRTR Presenter: Starting in the late 2010 s. We transitioned to A. C. 6, a triple F that we have 378 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:06.610 FRTR Presenter: billed as being more environmentally friendly. It doesn't have as much pfas in it, but it still had some. 379 00:11:06.690 --> 00:11:16.540 FRTR Presenter: and the Air Force is currently in the process of transitioning from a triple F completely to a fluorine free foam. What! We're calling an F 3 foam 380 00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:30.620 FRTR Presenter: All installations, all Air Force installations that had a flying mission contained at least one fire training area. We're recognizing and 381 00:11:30.900 --> 00:11:37.980 FRTR Presenter: finding that these fire training areas are probably some of our worst contaminated sites at our air forces. 382 00:11:38.040 --> 00:11:49.510 FRTR Presenter: Air Force bases. Unfortunately, so before about 1990, most of these fire training areas had unlined areas, unlined ponds. 383 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:50.560 FRTR Presenter: unlined 384 00:11:52.950 --> 00:12:06.699 FRTR Presenter: stormwater conveyance systems, things like that which just contributed to the Pfas contamination in our soil and groundwater and surface water. After 1990, they started 385 00:12:06.770 --> 00:12:10.360 FRTR Presenter: engineering these systems to line them 386 00:12:11.610 --> 00:12:15.200 FRTR Presenter: still, not 100%. But we're seeing better 387 00:12:15.770 --> 00:12:18.549 FRTR Presenter: better results with those less contamination 388 00:12:18.590 --> 00:12:24.850 FRTR Presenter: hangers are another one of our problems. At 1 point in time every single one of our hangers 389 00:12:25.070 --> 00:12:28.290 FRTR Presenter: had a triple F as a firefighting 390 00:12:28.530 --> 00:12:30.922 FRTR Presenter: system in the hangars. 391 00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:36.660 FRTR Presenter: I would say. About 3 or 4 years ago we started transitioning all of those hangers 392 00:12:36.980 --> 00:12:38.490 FRTR Presenter: from a triple F 393 00:12:38.730 --> 00:12:40.260 FRTR Presenter: back to water 394 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:43.510 FRTR Presenter: for firefighting, we found that 395 00:12:45.470 --> 00:12:47.350 FRTR Presenter: almost no 396 00:12:47.660 --> 00:12:48.640 FRTR Presenter: fire 397 00:12:48.990 --> 00:12:54.920 FRTR Presenter: were being identified. Associated with this hang. These hangars, where we had to use the A triple F 398 00:12:55.040 --> 00:12:56.860 FRTR Presenter: as a fire suppression. 399 00:12:57.790 --> 00:13:02.480 FRTR Presenter: Yes, the hangers had multiple releases, multiple spills. 400 00:13:02.520 --> 00:13:04.910 FRTR Presenter: and they're our second, most 401 00:13:05.370 --> 00:13:10.839 FRTR Presenter: source of a triple f contamination on our basis. So that's why we transitioned 402 00:13:11.870 --> 00:13:20.700 FRTR Presenter: back to the water system. And we're in the process of taking all of that. A triple F out right now. They at the time they were just locked out and tagged out. 403 00:13:20.780 --> 00:13:25.360 FRTR Presenter: We're now going back, removing the a triple F, so that we don't have any more releases. 404 00:13:25.460 --> 00:13:31.960 FRTR Presenter: I should say that it wasn't all of them. We actually had 3 hangers at joint base Andrews 405 00:13:31.970 --> 00:13:39.049 FRTR Presenter: that for the obvious reasons, we kept as a triple F, and we're in the process of transitioning those directly to 406 00:13:39.060 --> 00:13:40.830 FRTR Presenter: the F 3 right now. 407 00:13:45.140 --> 00:13:53.749 FRTR Presenter: So pfas can originate from many sources. We know this like, I said with the Air Force, it's predominantly our, a triple F, 408 00:13:53.990 --> 00:13:58.360 FRTR Presenter: but we also recognize that there's other potential sources. 409 00:13:58.800 --> 00:14:09.580 FRTR Presenter: production, application of waterproofing, steam proof, grief, grease, proof, coatings, agricultural uses, pesticide and herbicide 410 00:14:09.620 --> 00:14:18.259 FRTR Presenter: formulations. This is something that we had to look at closely during our background study to make sure we weren't sampling areas that had 411 00:14:18.660 --> 00:14:23.260 FRTR Presenter: pesticide or herbicide applications biosolids. 412 00:14:24.690 --> 00:14:28.790 FRTR Presenter: Another big problem that we're still trying to get our arms around 413 00:14:29.510 --> 00:14:36.929 FRTR Presenter: painting stations, chrome and metal plating. I I personally think that this is going to be one of our 414 00:14:38.060 --> 00:14:43.430 FRTR Presenter: non, a triple F bad boy sources. We are currently 415 00:14:43.470 --> 00:14:59.940 FRTR Presenter: running the equivalent of a preliminary assessment. Looking at these areas, and the next step will be doing presence, absence, sampling similar to a site inspection, some more information to come on those landfills. We're still trying to get arms around landfills. 416 00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:14.339 FRTR Presenter: We have so many different types of landfills on our installations, different construction, different histories still trying to get a handle on that, and how we're going to handle the landfills moving into future. Looking at 417 00:15:14.690 --> 00:15:16.540 FRTR Presenter: pfas contamination. 418 00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:37.189 FRTR Presenter: because there are so many different pfas compounds. I have here listed over 4,000 that number every time I go online and research how many different pfas compounds I get a different number. I've seen everything from 3,000 to over 15,000. Your guess is as good as mine at this point in time. 419 00:15:38.308 --> 00:15:43.239 FRTR Presenter: It's a challenge to identify the sources when we 420 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:45.980 FRTR Presenter: have analytical data 421 00:15:46.610 --> 00:15:47.610 FRTR Presenter: from 422 00:15:47.790 --> 00:15:53.079 FRTR Presenter: soil surface water groundwater as to where that source is coming from. 423 00:15:53.140 --> 00:16:07.290 FRTR Presenter: so that we can deal with it during the normal circle process, feasibility, study, risk assessment moving into the the record of decision. And then the remedial treatment. It's 424 00:16:07.420 --> 00:16:08.659 FRTR Presenter: it's a handful. 425 00:16:08.730 --> 00:16:09.780 FRTR Presenter: It really is. 426 00:16:12.732 --> 00:16:24.670 FRTR Presenter: Just a quick slide, identifying what we consider to be anthropogenic background. It's it's pretty much going to be atmospheric deposition. So you'll get pfas that is 427 00:16:24.870 --> 00:16:32.949 FRTR Presenter: released into the environment. Some of it does go up into the atmosphere, and we've recognized that 428 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:43.859 FRTR Presenter: can be moved around the world. I read an article several months ago, where they're recognizing pfas components in ice up in Antarctica. 429 00:16:43.870 --> 00:16:46.499 FRTR Presenter: So it's everywhere. It's worldwide. 430 00:16:46.590 --> 00:16:49.000 FRTR Presenter: It's being distributed worldwide. 431 00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:56.220 FRTR Presenter: What we need to try to identify is when we have deposition out of the atmosphere. 432 00:16:57.110 --> 00:16:59.630 FRTR Presenter: What concentrations are we looking at 433 00:17:00.100 --> 00:17:22.680 FRTR Presenter: in soil and in surface water associated with that deposition which is what we're considering to be anthropogenic background for this project. We are only looking at soil background. We are not dealing with surface water at this time. At the time we, we awarded the contract we were still wrangling with how to 434 00:17:22.890 --> 00:17:25.439 FRTR Presenter: quantify and identify 435 00:17:25.970 --> 00:17:28.590 FRTR Presenter: where to sample surface water. 436 00:17:28.610 --> 00:17:29.620 FRTR Presenter: to 437 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:35.690 FRTR Presenter: properly assess whether it's background or not, and so we didn't touch it at the time. 438 00:17:39.510 --> 00:17:56.109 FRTR Presenter: So our fingerprint and background study was awarded in September 2023. So that was a little bit over a year ago, and I again have to say kudos to the entire project team. We've come quite a long ways at this point. In time we have completed 439 00:17:56.530 --> 00:17:59.419 FRTR Presenter: the field sampling for 440 00:17:59.530 --> 00:18:05.070 FRTR Presenter: all of these installations. So, Stuart, even though it's listed, it's listed as 441 00:18:05.320 --> 00:18:16.599 FRTR Presenter: being done in October. We just completed it within the last week. So every one of these installations, except for the Tucson area, we've completed the sampling. That's 442 00:18:16.850 --> 00:18:18.590 FRTR Presenter: actually quite impressive 443 00:18:19.530 --> 00:18:24.809 FRTR Presenter: in my book to to get this far within a year of an Air Force project. 444 00:18:25.090 --> 00:18:29.600 FRTR Presenter: and again, kudos to the entire team to keep this project moving forward 445 00:18:31.390 --> 00:18:44.800 FRTR Presenter: so, as you can see, we were also very, very careful about the installations that we chose. We tried to spread them out across the country, and it even included one up in Alaska, so that we have 446 00:18:44.830 --> 00:18:46.020 FRTR Presenter: a 447 00:18:46.250 --> 00:18:51.039 FRTR Presenter: general idea of what may be going on regionally 448 00:18:51.550 --> 00:19:00.290 FRTR Presenter: relating to background that was predominantly associated with the background study. It's a selection of the installations. 449 00:19:04.020 --> 00:19:18.679 FRTR Presenter: So the project approach basically the scope of work. We had installation specific kickoff calls. We got on the phone with our remedial project managers at each installation who know their installations better than anybody else. 450 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:21.050 FRTR Presenter: On occasion they invited 451 00:19:21.210 --> 00:19:28.639 FRTR Presenter: their remedial investigation of investigation contractors who also contributed to the planning. 452 00:19:29.100 --> 00:19:32.190 FRTR Presenter: We identified sample locations 453 00:19:33.410 --> 00:19:34.610 FRTR Presenter: through these 454 00:19:35.767 --> 00:19:43.629 FRTR Presenter: discussions. And then we actually did a drive by and looked at each of these locations to ensure that they were appropriate 455 00:19:43.790 --> 00:19:46.139 FRTR Presenter: for what we were trying to do. 456 00:19:47.370 --> 00:19:55.829 FRTR Presenter: planning documents. As I said, we were very fortunate. The EPA Fifro office worked with us on the programmatic flap. 457 00:19:55.980 --> 00:20:03.720 FRTR Presenter: They actually reached out to each of the EPA. Installations on our behalf, got comments, consolidated them? 458 00:20:05.466 --> 00:20:16.899 FRTR Presenter: We we then did installation specific quaps that again went out to each of the EPA partners and state partners for review and comment. 459 00:20:20.970 --> 00:20:31.469 FRTR Presenter: and and the last bullet continuous schedule coordination with installation and laboratory. And it's not just the installation and the laboratory, but it's among the entire team. 460 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:38.239 FRTR Presenter: I think that I would probably not be over exaggerating when I say that I get 461 00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:39.710 FRTR Presenter: probably 462 00:20:39.850 --> 00:20:42.539 FRTR Presenter: one to 3 dozen emails a week 463 00:20:42.730 --> 00:20:49.939 FRTR Presenter: about this project. There are, I mean, the the communications is robust 464 00:20:50.450 --> 00:20:58.169 FRTR Presenter: and very timely and ongoing, and that has contributed to the success of the project. So far. 465 00:21:00.760 --> 00:21:04.550 FRTR Presenter: So the project approach real quick background study. 466 00:21:04.730 --> 00:21:11.139 FRTR Presenter: sampling soil, focusing on surface soil. On occasion we went 467 00:21:11.150 --> 00:21:17.460 FRTR Presenter: near surface soils. But we focused on surface soil up to 40 tests 468 00:21:18.120 --> 00:21:23.620 FRTR Presenter: per installation. We wanted to make sure that we had a robust enough data set 469 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:24.985 FRTR Presenter: to 470 00:21:26.030 --> 00:21:30.070 FRTR Presenter: take a good hard look at what we're doing, and to support the 471 00:21:31.410 --> 00:21:47.509 FRTR Presenter: the evaluation of that data we each sample that we collected was run through 2 different test methods. The 1st one is your standard EPA. Test method 1633. The second one was. 472 00:21:49.460 --> 00:21:51.939 FRTR Presenter: I'll let Kavisa talk about the second one. 473 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:54.440 FRTR Presenter: She's got some slides on that one. 474 00:21:54.880 --> 00:22:05.880 FRTR Presenter: the fingerprint study. We were sampling soil. So that's going to be both surface and subsurface soil, groundwater and surface water again. 475 00:22:05.950 --> 00:22:08.509 FRTR Presenter: Test method 1633. 476 00:22:08.820 --> 00:22:30.729 FRTR Presenter: And then the second test method that is evaluating for up to 520 pfas compounds, even though my slide says 520 pfas compounds. I've been told that recently Battelle has expanded that number up to almost 600, so they're still constantly working on this process and expanding it and and growing it. And 477 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:34.000 FRTR Presenter: one of the things that I like about working with Patel 478 00:22:37.060 --> 00:22:45.382 FRTR Presenter: every data set coming out of the test method 1633 is going through our normal data validation. 479 00:22:46.610 --> 00:22:52.120 FRTR Presenter: in accordance with quality system manual. The Dod quality system, manual, Qsm that we use. 480 00:22:52.780 --> 00:22:59.530 FRTR Presenter: And then each installation is getting an installation specific report that's summarizing 481 00:23:01.100 --> 00:23:10.489 FRTR Presenter: everything that we did from from the planning through the sampling, through the data analysis, findings and conclusions for both the background and the fingerprint study. 482 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:22.329 FRTR Presenter: One of the 1st things that Srs did was to take a good hard look at the Csm, so for each of our installations. 483 00:23:22.670 --> 00:23:27.970 FRTR Presenter: as we collect data as we go from one phase to the next, we're expanding and we're 484 00:23:28.470 --> 00:23:49.679 FRTR Presenter: updating our Csm. So they went back and pulled the most recent version of the Csm. Talk with the installations, talk with our Pfas contractors at each installation made sure that that was the most up to date Csm. That we had, and that it was correct and accurately reflecting what we had going on. At each installation 485 00:23:57.570 --> 00:24:01.139 FRTR Presenter: our sampling location selection differed 486 00:24:01.380 --> 00:24:06.559 FRTR Presenter: between the background and the Pfas study for the 487 00:24:06.940 --> 00:24:09.900 FRTR Presenter: fingerprinting study. We focus on source areas 488 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:13.570 FRTR Presenter: and we tried to focus on those areas where we had 489 00:24:13.650 --> 00:24:32.169 FRTR Presenter: probably higher concentrations, and we had a sufficient enough data set to know where these areas were. They were predominantly our, a triple f sources. But we did go back and pull other non a triple F sources and included those in our project studies 490 00:24:35.070 --> 00:24:38.359 FRTR Presenter: for the background study. We did the exact opposite. 491 00:24:38.810 --> 00:24:48.749 FRTR Presenter: We tried to get as far away as far away from our pfas sources as possible. In many cases that meant we were near our installation boundaries. 492 00:24:49.690 --> 00:24:52.999 FRTR Presenter: or we had to slightly step off in base 493 00:24:53.730 --> 00:25:01.210 FRTR Presenter: in order to make sure that we were sufficiently far enough from enough, far enough away from our source areas that we weren't picking up 494 00:25:01.570 --> 00:25:04.100 FRTR Presenter: source contamination in our samples. 495 00:25:07.130 --> 00:25:10.409 FRTR Presenter: And with that I'm going to turn it over to Kavitha. 496 00:25:19.830 --> 00:25:21.562 FRTR Presenter: Thank you, Cindy. 497 00:25:22.300 --> 00:25:32.229 FRTR Presenter: So now we'll be talking about the installation, the all the samples and analytical methods used for all of those things. 498 00:25:34.250 --> 00:25:46.420 FRTR Presenter: so the for the fingerprinting study, all of the samples collected were from different matrices, such as the soil groundwater was collected. Some of the surface water samples were also collected. 499 00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:53.819 FRTR Presenter: and for the background study. As Cindy mentioned, only the soil sample surface soil samples were collected. 500 00:25:53.830 --> 00:26:19.869 FRTR Presenter: Looking at the analytical methods, we have collected the data for using the 1633 EPA. Method for 40 target pfas analytes and the high-res mass spectral method, which is a suspect. Screening analysis was also collected which actually includes 600 pfas analytes. 501 00:26:19.870 --> 00:26:48.930 FRTR Presenter: In addition to the these 2 analytical techniques, we are also using machine learning algorithm using the library which was developed as a source library known source library using the high risk mass spec data. So all of these different analysis would be used as a combination for understanding the 4 and 6 for the Pfas sources. 502 00:26:49.330 --> 00:27:01.789 FRTR Presenter: So for the background study also, we are also collecting the 1633, 40 target pfas analytes and the suspect screening analysis for those 600 pfas analytes. 503 00:27:01.870 --> 00:27:13.850 FRTR Presenter: But coming to the statistical analysis, we will use the traditional multivariate analysis for understanding the background levels of pfas. 504 00:27:14.390 --> 00:27:27.040 FRTR Presenter: And in addition to that. We are also using understanding the site utilization like the source utilization data of all of those sites. 505 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:58.590 FRTR Presenter: So this is just going in more detail about each of the analysis what it is, what information do we get out of it? Of course, for the 1633 analysis, which is a standard 40 pfas target analytes, and this will be a quantitative information. What we get out of it. And this analysis, as I explained earlier, will be used for both the fingerprinting and the background study 506 00:27:59.070 --> 00:28:18.700 FRTR Presenter: coming to the high res mass spec analysis. This is a extended list of 600 pfas analytes, and when you mentioned about the high res mass spec analysis. For most of it. We don't have the standards for the target pfas which we are looking at. 507 00:28:18.700 --> 00:28:35.830 FRTR Presenter: so that gives you the qualitative data, what you are looking for. So the information we get out of these high-risk mass spec data would be qualitative peak responses for all of the extended list of pfas analytes. 508 00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:53.870 FRTR Presenter: and that information, as I mentioned earlier, will be used using the machine learning tool to compare the sample fingerprints with the known source fingerprints which we have populated in a source library database. 509 00:28:54.180 --> 00:29:00.680 FRTR Presenter: So that's about the fingerprinting study. And, as I mentioned earlier for the 510 00:29:01.170 --> 00:29:24.299 FRTR Presenter: background study, we will use the high res mass spec data. But at this point this is not the because we need some background levels, or at least some quantitative information. So we are using a semi quantitative approach for the using the high res mass spec data for those 600 analytes. 511 00:29:24.300 --> 00:29:50.080 FRTR Presenter: There are pretty standard, I would say some of the EPA recommended methods out there to convert your qualitative data into semi quantitative. So we are following some of those approaches reported in the literature, and also we are in regular communication with some of the EPA scientists who have developed those approaches. So we will use that semi quantitative 512 00:29:50.080 --> 00:29:57.360 FRTR Presenter: data to understand the backgrounds. And again, compare those things with 513 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:01.120 FRTR Presenter: site specific levels which we are seeing. 514 00:30:01.704 --> 00:30:18.839 FRTR Presenter: And these levels. The data will also be used to understand the site. Utilization like kind of a what type of for which type of the site is used? For what types of 515 00:30:18.840 --> 00:30:31.204 FRTR Presenter: things? Right? So if was it a forested area? Was it used for kind of agricultural purposes? But or is is there any impacts of the 516 00:30:32.360 --> 00:30:43.630 FRTR Presenter: urban area where people are living and having to use the many other products which might have pfas so based on the land use, the data will also be evaluated. 517 00:30:46.330 --> 00:30:47.320 FRTR Presenter: So. 518 00:30:47.660 --> 00:31:03.429 FRTR Presenter: having said that just wanted to give a quick workflow of how the extraction happens, using the EPA 1633, method, and followed by the targeted analysis, high-res, mass, spec analysis and advanced statistical tools will be used. 519 00:31:03.800 --> 00:31:17.230 FRTR Presenter: But in addition to all the data we are generating, and as we heard from our previous speakers also that, looking at the forensic analysis for pfas, there is no silver bullet there. 520 00:31:17.230 --> 00:31:41.340 FRTR Presenter: So even having so much power with this high res mass spec data, given such a complex chemistry of pfas and its behavior, we still need to consider multiple lines of evidence, such as site history. What do you know about the source knowledge right? If there is a a spillage, what's the history behind it? And understanding the fate and transport 521 00:31:41.500 --> 00:31:49.689 FRTR Presenter: a lot of database searches could also be made and having conceptual site models which are more recent 522 00:31:49.850 --> 00:31:54.750 FRTR Presenter: are more helpful, and any of the data gap analysis information. 523 00:31:55.480 --> 00:32:04.410 FRTR Presenter: So all of these information will be considered while preparing the reports. In addition to all the data we collect. 524 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:30.870 FRTR Presenter: so more details, again, of given, this is a novel tool. I just wanted to provide more information of how the tool is used as a stepwise, I will just go through. We do collect the data for 600 pfas analytes, and we are using it for both the background and the fingerprint study. 525 00:32:33.800 --> 00:32:58.329 FRTR Presenter: And this is a quick sneak. Peek at what information do you get when you're doing, taking a high res mass spec analysis, right? So all the perflurine alkyl acids which are your target analytes are the ones which you see on the right, pfaas. Only that information you get, and some of the Ftss. 526 00:32:58.530 --> 00:33:07.119 FRTR Presenter: But with just using the targeted analysis, you are just missing the whole gamut of other precursor information. 527 00:33:07.150 --> 00:33:29.620 FRTR Presenter: So having that precursor information would be very powerful when understanding the sources, because all the p. 4 pfos and other perfluoralkyl acids are just the terminal and products. No matter if your source is arr for metal plating or a land waste, related sector or commercial products. 528 00:33:29.620 --> 00:33:58.550 FRTR Presenter: the terminal products are the same. So just using that data, it becomes really difficult to identify the sources. But having the high-res mass spec data will give you a lot of information about some of the precursors which are used, so that actually does connect with the applications which are used for it. So this is all the information we get out of the high-res mass spec data. Just on this samples we got 529 00:33:58.550 --> 00:34:05.220 FRTR Presenter: more than 100 detects for all of the pfas which were detected in that particular sample. 530 00:34:07.430 --> 00:34:19.157 FRTR Presenter: So I've been mentioning about using machine learning algorithms and mentioned about the source library. So this is 531 00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:21.790 FRTR Presenter: some of the 532 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:45.219 FRTR Presenter: different sources we collected known sources and samples were collected and high risk mass spec data was collected, and all of this information was populated as the source library, and these are some examples of a formulations, some of the unique. A formulations are included in the database. We have about more than 35 unique formulations. 533 00:34:45.220 --> 00:34:55.719 FRTR Presenter: a lot of samples collected from wastewater treatment plant affluence. Again, there are some of the domestic wastewater treatment plants. Some of the paper mill related wastewater treatment plants. 534 00:34:55.720 --> 00:35:22.030 FRTR Presenter: All of that fingerprints were collected, biosolid applied, soils were collected, landfill, leachate samples, some chrome plating effluents were also collected. We, in addition to all these, a lot of commercial products were collected, and commercial formulations were also included in the database, just to get a complete 535 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:43.319 FRTR Presenter: like a whole approach of what all the other possible sources we might have. And again, the database is continuously being updated. If we see any other new, unique source available, and if they are willing to provide the sample. We keep updating the database as well. 536 00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:47.650 FRTR Presenter: And 537 00:35:47.790 --> 00:36:05.300 FRTR Presenter: so this is the where, how the machine learning tool is being used and what the data output do we get? In this case? We are using one unknown sample and comparing it with a subset of the database. 538 00:36:05.330 --> 00:36:23.809 FRTR Presenter: How does the machine learning tool will show you the source differentiation. All of the dark circles, or gray or black circles are the aff related sources, and the yellow triangles are the non a triple F source. 539 00:36:23.810 --> 00:36:40.120 FRTR Presenter: And once we have this unknown source sample the unknown source sample just goes, and pretty good clusters with the non aff sources indicating it is a non aff related source. Fingerprint it has. 540 00:36:40.120 --> 00:36:57.690 FRTR Presenter: And this is exactly how the tool uses all of the data collected from the sites of those unknown sources, and uses the actual known source database. To compare the sources or distinguish the sources. 541 00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:19.929 FRTR Presenter: This is another example I mentioned about. We have more than 35 unique. A sources in the library, and how the machine learning tool differentiates those things. As you can see, the fluoro telomere based. And Ecf based chemistry. Even your targeted analysis could do that. 542 00:37:19.930 --> 00:37:37.520 FRTR Presenter: But even going further than that is the clusters. What you are seeing within this each of the fluoro telomere based. And the Ecf chemistries are different, a triple Fs collected from different vendors. Or maybe it's the formulations. 543 00:37:37.520 --> 00:38:02.249 FRTR Presenter: even that precursor chemistry which is dictating the differences between. Even within the fluoro telomere chemistry. Not all affs are same right. We could broadly say that fluoro telomere base chemistry, but within that the precursor chemistry differs from different aff vendor to vendor. And that's exactly what you're seeing is those clusters which are circled 544 00:38:02.250 --> 00:38:08.060 FRTR Presenter: are the different vendor, a triple f related products. 545 00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:31.529 FRTR Presenter: And that's how we can identify different sources. But it's exactly you need to be careful that even if your neighbor is using a triple F, which is fluorotelomere, which is of the same chemistry. Again, you can't do anything, but if there is a from different vendors they are using, you'll be able to identify 546 00:38:31.900 --> 00:38:34.880 FRTR Presenter: the a triple of chemistry. 547 00:38:35.160 --> 00:38:39.239 FRTR Presenter: I think. I'll hand it over to Cindy. 548 00:38:48.930 --> 00:38:55.527 FRTR Presenter: So if I've as I've mentioned before, our project, success lies within strong communication and partnering. 549 00:38:57.270 --> 00:38:58.630 FRTR Presenter: I I 550 00:38:59.030 --> 00:39:06.400 FRTR Presenter: can't begin to foot. Stop that. And what I've recognized a year into the project is that that strong 551 00:39:08.020 --> 00:39:17.019 FRTR Presenter: communication and partnering has gotten us as far down the road as we have. We are starting to see some preliminary data in. It's actually very interesting. 552 00:39:19.110 --> 00:39:28.179 FRTR Presenter: The other reason that I'm really thrilled over. The fact that we are as far along as we are is because we 553 00:39:28.340 --> 00:39:30.090 FRTR Presenter: are trying to push 554 00:39:30.680 --> 00:39:33.010 FRTR Presenter: our pfas investigation 555 00:39:33.030 --> 00:39:50.740 FRTR Presenter: programs at the Air Force to keep them moving along as quickly as possible, and we recognize that the data from this investigation will be used to make some decisions moving forward on how we're going to program and execute 556 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.290 FRTR Presenter: things like the 557 00:39:53.420 --> 00:40:02.860 FRTR Presenter: remedial investigation and feasibility study to incorporate background into them. It's going to be included in 558 00:40:03.080 --> 00:40:12.509 FRTR Presenter: trying to identify what different sources that we have at our installations, looking at the data to help us 559 00:40:13.470 --> 00:40:19.899 FRTR Presenter: do the feasibility study to help us with the risk assessment to identify what we have. 560 00:40:19.950 --> 00:40:25.799 FRTR Presenter: how we're going to deal with it, and more importantly, to help us design our remedial systems. 561 00:40:28.970 --> 00:40:35.140 FRTR Presenter: so some of the components of this communication and partnering process. 562 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:41.030 FRTR Presenter: continuous coordination and communication programmatically 563 00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:51.950 FRTR Presenter: and with each unique installation program we we work very very closely with the installations and the Rpms. As I've indicated respectful 564 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:57.470 FRTR Presenter: document, review and comment, resolution for progress. We 565 00:40:57.990 --> 00:40:59.640 FRTR Presenter: were not required 566 00:41:00.510 --> 00:41:07.630 FRTR Presenter: to have our work plans and quaps reviewed by our regulatory partners. But we chose 567 00:41:07.720 --> 00:41:22.239 FRTR Presenter: to give them a courtesy review before we finalize these documents and went out into the field because we wanted their. Input. We wanted their comments. We wanted their perspective on how to proceed with this work. It was very critically important to us 568 00:41:22.450 --> 00:41:34.959 FRTR Presenter: project teams working together with our Ri contractors. They had the most recent information. They knew the installations. They knew the hydrology, they knew surface water 569 00:41:35.560 --> 00:41:45.840 FRTR Presenter: migration. They knew all of the data, and so we had to pull them in, and we worked with them to make sure that we had the information and the data that we needed to 570 00:41:46.070 --> 00:41:48.770 FRTR Presenter: properly plan this project 571 00:41:49.580 --> 00:41:56.400 FRTR Presenter: overcoming challenges of respecting installation and regulatory specific policies 572 00:41:56.440 --> 00:42:00.870 FRTR Presenter: while maintaining programmatic consistency. That's a mouthful 573 00:42:01.972 --> 00:42:05.590 FRTR Presenter: but basically, what it means is is that 574 00:42:05.970 --> 00:42:09.679 FRTR Presenter: we recognize that each of our installations have 575 00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:26.869 FRTR Presenter: a very unique relationship with their regulatory partners. The installations are the main point of contact for the Air Force with the Regulators, and we made sure that we work closely with the installations, and 576 00:42:27.430 --> 00:42:36.059 FRTR Presenter: talking with and soliciting information from our regulatory partners. We kept them in the loop, we kept them actively involved. 577 00:42:36.090 --> 00:42:38.949 FRTR Presenter: We are actually 578 00:42:40.050 --> 00:42:42.820 FRTR Presenter: doing presentations at 579 00:42:42.890 --> 00:42:59.960 FRTR Presenter: our regular tier 2 meetings. So if you're familiar with the Air Force program tiered program. We have 3 tiers of meetings that we schedule and hold with our regulatory partners on a regular basis. Tier. One is 580 00:42:59.960 --> 00:43:25.110 FRTR Presenter: communication between the Rpm. And the main point of contact at the at the regulatory agency tier 2 includes their supervisors tier 3 includes their supervisors, supervisors. So I am actively at tier 2 meetings every 6 months to a year, doing updated presentations on this project to keep our regulatory partners in the loop so that they know what's going on 581 00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:31.949 FRTR Presenter: working between field and laboratory teams to deploy novel, analytical tool 582 00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:42.800 FRTR Presenter: that Kavitha has generated with so many varied installation considerations and stakeholders. Every installation has its own unique 583 00:43:43.510 --> 00:43:59.299 FRTR Presenter: issues. For example, at Travis we had to deal with some cultural and biological situations that we needed to make sure that we covered when we planned our sampling program. So like I said, every installation is different. 584 00:43:59.600 --> 00:44:07.350 FRTR Presenter: Therefore, talking with the installation Rpms was critical to make sure that we included these things in our programs. 585 00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:11.530 FRTR Presenter: And with that 586 00:44:12.520 --> 00:44:14.430 FRTR Presenter: we will take questions. 587 00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:18.509 FRTR Presenter: All right. Well, first, st let's do a big round of applause. 588 00:44:22.470 --> 00:44:32.069 FRTR Presenter: and I know we're just a few minutes over. So I want to start in the room. If there are questions for our speakers in the room, please go ahead in the front. 589 00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:40.070 FRTR Presenter: Yes, thank you. It's a really really great talk. I'm really curious to hear more about the Pfas signature tool. 590 00:44:40.120 --> 00:44:49.559 FRTR Presenter: I guess. Just one fairly quick question out of the total oxidizable precursor pool that those of us who don't have access to Hrms are used to seeing. 591 00:44:49.600 --> 00:44:56.060 FRTR Presenter: How much do what portion of that? Do you think the that Hrms approach is capturing? 592 00:44:57.780 --> 00:45:00.580 FRTR Presenter: I'm sorry I had trouble hearing that question. 593 00:45:01.210 --> 00:45:08.890 FRTR Presenter: I guess the the short version, I suppose, is of the total precursor pool. How much do you think you're seeing with the Hrms method? 594 00:45:10.210 --> 00:45:23.249 FRTR Presenter: So, as I mentioned, it's around 600 pfas analytes are included. So whatever the data is available in the literature on the precursors. All of those analytes are included in the library. 595 00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:55.549 FRTR Presenter: Thank you for your presentation. Really excellent. My question is about adopting EPA, Dq. Or process in the analysis, because you immediately you jumped into using Gc. Mass spectrometry. The question is, do you really need that directly, or you need to go back for screening analysis before you do that, because when you use mass spectrometry it would be too costly to go and try to analyze 596 00:45:55.550 --> 00:46:22.890 FRTR Presenter: so many samples, so based on EPA directions for Dq, so you need to look at other process. Understood? You used EPA analysis to quantify the material. But the question you are trying to use screening analysis first, st to identify rather than to quantify question is also, have you thought about other techniques like using Fti, or 597 00:46:22.890 --> 00:46:34.930 FRTR Presenter: just only for quality, for qualification, not quantification or to study for screen analysis. Pfs, material. 598 00:46:35.270 --> 00:46:44.400 FRTR Presenter: So I know it is complicated analytical question, but I think always the recommended approach to save resources and fund 599 00:46:45.930 --> 00:46:49.040 FRTR Presenter: answer is to adopt Eqr. Process. Thank you. 600 00:46:50.330 --> 00:47:17.239 FRTR Presenter: So at all of these sites we do know that there is Af or the pfas impacts are there. So that preliminary screening data we already have, and more going to the objective of it is to identify what those sources are in some cases, and to see if there is any background levels present at some of those unimpacted locations. So 601 00:47:17.240 --> 00:47:33.859 FRTR Presenter: the screening data. What you are mentioning. We do already have that screening data. And that's how we are going back to make sure what the sources are based on the pfas impacts what we are seeing there. 602 00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:37.377 FRTR Presenter: Not sure if. 603 00:47:40.580 --> 00:47:45.109 FRTR Presenter: yeah, I see one more here at the table. Further discussion. That's okay. Thank you. 604 00:47:45.970 --> 00:47:51.836 FRTR Presenter: Thank you. It's the button in the very front. It says Press. Oh, sorry I don't have my glasses on. 605 00:47:52.370 --> 00:48:08.856 FRTR Presenter: I was just curious whether to capture what might be ongoing atmospheric input whether rainwater or ambient air sampling was considered by your your team. Obviously, you know, it's not going to quite correlate with the 606 00:48:09.650 --> 00:48:14.620 FRTR Presenter: legacy impacts. Given, probably the industry phase impact of the industry phase outs. 607 00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:18.520 FRTR Presenter: But just to kind of get some idea what might be an ongoing 608 00:48:18.630 --> 00:48:26.469 FRTR Presenter: impact especially given. Maybe you'll remediate a site once. Some assurance is not significant or is significant. 609 00:48:28.950 --> 00:48:31.560 FRTR Presenter: So we briefly did consider that. 610 00:48:32.310 --> 00:48:38.769 FRTR Presenter: But we were working towards the concept of trying to develop 611 00:48:38.850 --> 00:48:41.480 FRTR Presenter: installation specific 612 00:48:42.060 --> 00:48:49.239 FRTR Presenter: anthropogenic background levels in soil and surface water. We recognize. And I've I've 613 00:48:49.370 --> 00:49:03.569 FRTR Presenter: read the research heard of presentations where they've actually collected and sampled rainwater and tested it for pfas. But we recognize that once that rainwater hits the soil and hits the groundwater they're 614 00:49:03.860 --> 00:49:09.120 FRTR Presenter: seems to be some type of a dilution factor that occurs. 615 00:49:09.470 --> 00:49:19.069 FRTR Presenter: And and, in my opinion, doing that type of testing really wasn't providing any additional usable information for the project.